LISTING LINES
A lecture given on 20 September 1962 

Thank you.
Well, here we are on the what?
Audience: Twentieth.
Where did the 19th go? Oh, I was auditing that night. That’s right. So this is the 20th of September, AD 12.
I’m going to talk to you right now about lines and listing.
It’s only four days deep into this week and six goals have been found. We’re running at a rate of one and a half goals per day. Those of you who have had the half-goal found… Six goals-just like that. They’re rolling off now at a highly rapid rate.
All you’ve got to do is learn how to do it so that it happens with everybody you address in under twenty-five hours. That’s what I want to have you do. And that way you can run a co-audit and that way you can do a terrific amount of this and that. Okay?
Audience: Mm-hm.
All right. Now, I want to talk to you about goals and listing. Listing is a problem you have not yet wrapped your wits about. None of you were listing on the right lines. I doubt there’s anybody listing on the right lines. Your lines are probably wrong. I have tried to develop a formula for lines without much success, which could be rattled off boppity-boppity-bop.
The formula is probably: create, curious, desire, enforce, inhibit, you know? The CDEI Scale with a create on top of it. That’s probably the formula. And that goes positive and negative and oppose and not-oppose. And then it goes cause and effect on the goal line. Well that, if added up, give you forty lines. Look it over; that’s a forty line listing rig.
Now, I haven’t listed one out totally on those lines because I’ve just-you’re as usual, trodding upon my heels very tightly. And I have to fix-I have to get the backs of my shoes fixed more often than any other person, anyplace.
But the essence of this is that if you had: one, create, do you see, causative, then of course, there is a create effect. You’ll understand more about that in a minute, see. So that’s a group of four. Create causative immediately becomes a group of four. I’ll give you an idea:
”Who or what would make catfish?” See? Now, that’s fine. Who or what would make catfish? All right. Now, that, of course, goes into ”not make catfish,” ”would oppose making catfish” and ”not oppose making catfish.” Instantly and immediately we have a group of four. It’s always on a group of four.
You always have the plus and the minus and the plus-oppose and the minus-oppose-always. There will be some version of that and it must be in a multiple of four.
Now, if you have a causative end of the line-you know, ”Who or what would make catfish,” then you’ve got… This is a very crude example and I should tell you right here that the problem is not as critical as you’re making it out. With four lines it was terribly critical. You had to get these things to fire; you had to get everything all set and whooo!, it was really sharp and so forth. Well, we’re handling it quantitatively now. Who cares? See? You don’t have to get these lines-you don’t have to prepcheck these lines, you don’t have to get these lines to fire, you don’t have to do anything. You just take the goal, put it to it and list and the weird part of it is you’re operating on a plus margin. You’re way over what it takes to make him Clear. You understand? And I’ll go into that more.
But let’s take a look at this now. You’ve got the effect end, which gives you another four. Now, if you’ve got a cause four, you must have an effect four. You got the idea?
”Who or what would make catfish?” See? You’ve got to have ”What would catfish make?” Do you see that? And ”What would catfish not make?” and ”What would catfish oppose making?” and ”What would they not oppose making?” You understand that?
Just because you’ve got an object in the goal is no reason that the effect end is settled. You got the idea?
We had somebody once who had a goal that had the word ”empire” in it. Well, this saddled everybody. An empire was an empire and that was all there was to it. You know, the object end of the goal; the effect end of the goal is all taken care of in the goal. That’s obvious, isn’t it? It’s got an empire on the end of the goal, so therefore, ”Who’d want to run an empire?” You see? Ah! We’ll have to get over to the other side of this thing, ”What empire would want to be run?” Don’t you see that?
Don’t take it for granted that because the goal has an object in the sentence that that is a fait accompli and that is never alterable or anything or you’ll leave your pc there with stacks of extra answers.
Now, how did all this come about?
It came about this way having to alter-is the command to squeeze the answers in sideways. You got it?
Audience: Mm-hm.
And they were always left with extra items and these sometimes would pile up to a point where the tone arm would start rising and would go up and stick. And those were just piled-up suppressed items that there was no line for them to go on, alterations of line, alterations of the auditing command. You see these are all disobediences of the basics of auditing: must be a clear auditing question and it must be a clean auditing answer to that question. Don’t you see?
All right. Now, the answer to that is, of course, give them more lines than they ever heard of They always got someplace to put the extra item.
Now, furthermore, even though you have somebody’s goals already all fixed up, see, and it’s already grooved in and you’ve got this all taped and everything, and he all of a sudden comes up with a rabbit. And he tells you after you’ve gone through sixteen consecutive lines of listing-which is all you had for his goal-that he’s still got a rabbit. Well, you don’t throw this rabbit away. But let me tell you, the rabbit-the rabbit is what he would make. Do you see? And there just is no place to put this rabbit. And here’s this poor old bunny sitting out there on the side and it drives your pc halfway around the bend.
Well, you can’t put in an extra line which accommodates the rabbit. If you put in an extra line to accommodate the rabbit you of course, have to put in eight lines. So, actually, the minimal number of lines that you can add to anybody’s list is eight. Not four, but eight. It must be subject and it must be object. You see? The cause and the effect. You see that?
So anyway, if your pc can’t accommodate a rabbit then you’d better give this thing a good study. Not evaluate for him and tell him where it belongs but tell him what he thinks this rabbit would have to do with what he is doing.
And he says, ”Well,” he says, ”the rabbit of course-the rabbit would - would-well-the rabbit-I guess the rabbit would-well, he’d be impossible to make.”
And maybe the goal was ”to make things.” A rabbit would just be impossible to make. Well, you’re off to the races. Just put the word ”impossible” into eight lines. You see how you’d do that? And you’ll accommodate the rabbit and you’ll find out there’s a whole bunch more that will come in on top of it and I don’t care how many sets of lines you use.
But if you do that, don’t try to catch the lines up to the other lines, just add them in the normal course of events. You understand? You’ll always find extra items.
Now, there’s an oddity here as any pc that has been run on it and is jostling around can tell you. ”Who or what would want the goal to catch catfish? Who or what would not want the goal to catch catfish? Who or what would oppose the goal to catch catfish? And who or what would not oppose the goal to catch catfish?” All of those get different answers than anything else. ”Who or what would catch catfish?” and all of that bracket, actually you get different answers when you say the goal. That’s an interesting ramification, see. If you say, ”Who or what would want the goal to catch catfish?” Don’t you see? Well, that gives you four lines that sort of stand out.
Now, what would be the object of this? Is what catfish? You got the idea? You’d have to add the other four in some haphazard fashion to make it a balanced eight. Do you understand? But it’d all be the goal-the goal, the goal, the goal. That would be eight lines all devoted to the goal. You understand? If you were going to run it that way.
Actually, you’re now riding in clover. You’re way out on the wide-open sands and you’ve got such abundance of places to put things that you’re riding on a quantitative cushion, you might say. The pc can put anything - anything he’s got anyplace without that one, the goal. But I’m just giving you an idea, see?
This, by the way, I’ve seen boggle a pc. I’m not advocating that you use this one. See? The pc would be saying, ”Who wants this goal?” and, ”Who wants this goal?” and so forth. Well, just gratuitously add eight more lines. Got the idea? Each one with the goal in front of the thing. And you’ll get a whole bunch more answers. You understand? You’re always at liberty to do this.
Now, I don’t care how many lines you list. You can list 128 lines if you want to. But they’re all listed in the same way; they must be answerable and each line is put down at the top of a sheet of paper and you add 4 items to that list and put a check mark and go to the next page. Not five, not three: four. That is what you want, just exactly four.
And what if he gets an extra item?
He says, ”But-but-but-but I’ve got this item here. I got this rabbit. I-Here’s this rabbit. I-I-I got this rabbit. I got this rabbit.”
You say, ”Good. I’ll write the rabbit down in the margin. You can have him the next time around.” Got the idea?
And this disciplines and puts the pc at cause over these wild automaticities that you so far have been accommodating-too accommodating about. Got the idea? Four. Not three, not five: four. And that leaves the auditor at cause over the session. See? Because listing sessions tend to become too uncaused. They go wild. The guy writes three sessions on, ”Who or what would not want to have made catfish?” See? And it goes on and on and on and on and on. Actually jams himself up by doing this too.
Now, why do I say ”four”?
Well, four appears to be a fairly optimum number. But I would not be surprised to have you come down sometime or another with a real jammed-up case to one.
Now, why would you drop?
You wouldn’t drop on the case after you’d started. If you started with four, you’d continue with four. If you started with one, you’d continue with one. But one, that isn’t very quantitative. But you might get it so jammed up that the guy can’t do anything about it.
Now, what happens exactly if you overlist?
First you get a comm lag. And then you get a ”fishing for the right item.” These occupy a lot of session time of which-there’s no value in occupying that session time, see? Has no value at all. And then the next phenomenon is, ”Oh, that isn’t it!” You got it?
All right. It’s first comm lags. ”There’s-there’s a waterbuck and a tiger and a uhh-uhhm-uhh-uhh-uhh…” At twenty-five dollars an hour. That’s crazy. You don’t want that. You get the idea? See, he’s listed sixteen items and then he goes on to uhh-uhh-uhh, and the next thing you give him, you say, ”All right, give me another one on that line.” If you did that - you ought to make this as an experiment some day just to see how it works because it always works out this way.
He’ll say, ”Well, it’s a big-no a small, a large-an enormous, a huge - uh-uh-a big-mm-mm-it’s a certain type of waterbuck. It’s a large-who, a who - big, small, no, no - it isn’t big, small - no, no - couldn’t be - so on and so on, so on. Oh, I finally got it! The item is a certain type of waterbuck. Yeah, that’s great.”
Now, if you said, ”Give me some more items,” he would be saying, ”A waterbuck-no that isn’t it. A tiger-no that isn’t it. A giraffe-no that isn’t it. No, don’t put that down. Uh, that wouldn’t be it. A tiger. No, that isn’t it” and so on.
You’ve got to run them all out in invalidations on a Prepcheck. To hell with that racket. See, that’s no good.
What’s happening? What’s happening?
On the ahh-ahh-ahh-ahh-ahh, what you’ve got is the line has flowed in one direction. You see, these flows-you’re listing flows-and you’ve run one of these flows to a point where it’s idling at the end, you see. It’s idling and it isn’t reaching anything and it’s kind of trying to come back. So he’s kind of saying, ”Uhh-uhh-uhh.” It can’t strike anything because he can’t reach in that direction anymore. The flow is now stuck.
And the next phenomenon is: he does manage to reach something but he knows kind of that it’s undescribable. You’re asking him to reach too far.
Don’t you see? And it’s too far in that direction. It’s undescribable and therefore the right thing and all of that and so forth. Now, if you-if he goes past that and manages to describe it, he’s already overreached himself considerably.
The next phenomenon is that the backflow on that same line Starts to hit. And so he no more than announces something than he is invalidated. You see? The backflow has started. You’re trying to reach out and it’s trying to come in. Or you’re trying to reach in and he’s trying to flow out. You get the idea? It’s self-invalidative. And if you run a line too long in one direction, you will get this, ”Isn’t it, isn’t it, isn’t it? Catfish, isn’t it? Waterbuck, isn’t it? Tiger, isn’t it?” You get the idea? And all you’re running into there is bank phenomena.
The comm lag, the indescribable, the invalidated; and that is the cycle that those listings go.
So, you want to stop short of that and keep the pc fluid. Now, the way you can keep him running properly in these lines is to get a large number of lines and let him put a definite number on each line. The-a good average number is four. But if you start in with four then he damn well gives you four. And that’s all there is to it. And you’ll find very shortly he gets totally educated on the thing. He’ll give you four-one, two, three, four. Next line, one, two, three, four. Next line, one, two, three, four. Next line, one, two, three, four.
And then he’ll say, ”Ahh-ahh-ahh,” on the next line. And then, one, two, three, four. And one, two, three, four. And one, two, three, four. And one, two, three, four. And, man, you’re getting items, man. And that guy’s going Clear in a hurry. Savvy?
None of this ahh-ahh-ahh-ahh-ahh, you know? Auditing is not an exercise in gargling.
Now, that’s how to get fast listing done.
Now, the funny part of it is, the more lines you’ve got the shorter your listing will be. The more lines you list, the less listing you’re going to do. Let me give you an idea. This is-this is suppositional. That on four lines you would have had to have listed twenty thousand items to free needle. So we list eight items and you would only have to list on all-that is-this is a total number of items-maybe eighteen thousand. See? We list sixteen lines and we only list twelve thousand items. You get the idea? You see, it isn’t per line. That’s just the gross number.
Now, perhaps you could go too far out on this. And the only way you could go too far out on this is by failing to sandwich the causative and the effective properly. Now, you can have eight causative and eight effective without getting into trouble. But if you start up from that number you had better have four causative, four effect. You understand? Four cause, four effect.
Now, you understand what I mean by cause and effect. ”Who would want to be a goddess?” and ”Who the hell would want a goddess?” You get the idea? See? Get that as cause and effect, see? Who’d want to be one? Who’d want to have one? That’s your four lines in sequence, one to the next. You savvy?
Now, oddly enough, you can do this rather badly and still win. Lucky - lucky that it’s that way. On the four lines you had to be very precise, you had to keep your mid rudiments in, you had to do this, you had to do that, you had to check-prepcheck everything, you had to prepcheck it every time you turned around, you had to do this.
Why?
Well, in looking into this to find out why, I found out that the items were being stacked up in alter-is. So if the items are being stacked in alter-is, why then of course, you had to prepcheck often.
Now, why did the items themselves have to fire?
Well, they had to fire because you did-you didn’t have any abundance of lines: you were running on an economy of lines, which gave you, of course you had to get those lines which fired most and then you had a chance. But by listing a large number of lines, why, you’re all set.
Now, I don’t know what the proper number of lines is. I know very easily that sixteen you could undoubtedly get by with. You could get by with sixteen lines. Twenty-four lines-that’s your next number up. That’s dandy ; they’re fine; that’s fine. Thirty-two-okay; okay. Forty-fine. See, it’s almost a matter of, who cares?
But you get those together and you determine the number of lines you’re going to have unless the pc had-starts having leftover rabbits, a case of leftover rabbits, why you wouldn’t have to form up any more lines.
But now here’s the precise way in which you list one of these things. I’m going to go worse, then I’m going to go over this again with you-formation of lines-because this is a headache. But let me tell you-let me get it in so I won’t forget it. Here is an exact, proper listing session. I want to tell you what an exact listing session is. Exactly what it is.
You sit yourself down. You sits the pc down. You adjust his chair and you get the can squeeze and you put him into Model Session. You got that now? All right.
And then the firstest thing you do is you super-tiger drill the goal till it reads. See? You get that goal reading.
Now, the magic phrase, ”In auditing on the goal,” or ”Since blank” (whenever the goal was found or since the last time he was prepchecked up to) are also usable in that Tiger Drill. ”In auditing on the goal to catch catfish has anything been suppressed? In auditing on the goal to catch catfish is there anything you’ve been careful of?” You understand? And you drill that thing back into a read before you start a thing in that session. And after that you don’t do a darn thing with it. You don’t do anything with lines. You don’t do anything with anything. You just list. You got it to read, that’s it.
Now, of course, if your session goes to hell you get your mid rudiments in. But you don’t do anything else with the goal. If your session goes to pieces, why, you get your middle rudiments in. That’s when you use middle rudiments.
Now, middle rudiments are best put in with this line, not ”In this session” but ”Since the last time I audited you.” Got that? They’re always put in best that way. ”Since the last time I audited you.” I know it’s right in the middle of the session and the guy’s all out of session and everything else and so forth, well you figure this must have gone wrong between sessions.
Why? Why is this?
Well, I discovered a new phenomenon. There’s a new phenomenon. You miss a withhold on the pc in a session, it’ll key in a withhold that happened before the session. Now, that’s a hell of a thing. This had to happen to us, see. I’ll give you an idea. You say-the pc says to you, one of his items is a buttercake, see, and he says to you, ”Buttercake.”
And you say, ”A blossom.” You’re muttering to yourself
And he says, ”No, no, no. No, no. A-a buttercake.”
And you say, ”A splutterbath.”
And, he says, ”No, no, no, no, a buttercake. A buttercake. A buttercake. That-that’s what I want on there, a buttercake.”
And you say, ”All right. Waterbuck.”
Now, then you finally wake up, see-this was a warm day-and you say, ”Oh, a buttercake.” And you put down a buttercake.
And you say everything is all right but now the middle rudiments are a little bit out. So you say, ”In this session yip-yap, yup-yup, whoop-whop…” And you straighten it all out and the pc is still out of session.
Well, what’s taken place here?
Something very interesting has taken place. Because you missed, see, that’s a withhold-you made him have a withhold called a buttercake-you will key in a missed withhold that wasn’t registering in the beginning rudiments. Heehhh! This would happen to us! Now, the liability of it-you must understand this-because the liability of it is this: that it didn’t happen between sessions but is a missed withhold from eighteen years ago. Ooooh!
Well, if you just know that one can happen, you can also get it from eighteen years ago. But that’s why a pc appears to stay ARC broke, even though you get in the middle ruds. You got it?
In other words, when you missed a withhold in the session it keyed in a missed withhold. Weird business, you see. You hadn’t missed it up to then; you had missed no part of it because it had never come up. Well, because you missed one in the session you key in one and miss it. You got that?
Audience: Mm-hm. Yes.
So a good prevention of this-but not the perfect prevention of this-is of course, ”Since the last time I audited you.” Now, that will catch most of them. But sometimes you just got up and drunk the wrong brand of coffee; it must be, because it’s just unlucky. You keyed in one when he was five years old and it doesn’t even get included into the Problems Intensive run on him, you know? And there’s a missed withhold sitting there staring everybody in the face and the pc’s all ARC broke and nobody can make anything out of it.
Now also, you could have gone past something or other about his goal or missed an item or he’s suppressed one. And that will operate as a missed withhold and key in an earlier missed withhold. You get the idea? In other words, he gets in a snarl, but it’s still under the heading of missed withholds.
The only thing you’ve got to solve when a pc continues to be ARC breaky is the whenness of the missed withhold. See? It’s the whenness of the missed withhold that will louse you up in a listing session or a goals finding session.
You missed something so you keyed in an earlier one that you hadn’t missed. You know? He stole a piece of cake off of you two months ago and it’s never come up. You’ve been auditing right across this thing; you’ve been just doing fine in the session and everything’s been going along dandy and session after session, never come up, never disturbed him, he’s in good ARC with you, never been critical. And then one fine day he says, ”Buttercup.”
And you say, ”All right. Waterbuck.”
And here we go. You’ve missed a withhold in session, he keys it in-all of a sudden the pc’s all chopped up, very ARC breaky and you finally get very, very clever and finally find the stolen cake two months ago.
And you say, ”How in the name of common sense could I have been auditing this character for two months?” Well, it wasn’t keyed in. It just stayed there. You know? There it was.
You know an engram never becomes anything unless it’s keyed in. Well, that’s the same thing with a missed withhold. See? A withhold-a potential withhold does not do anything to anybody until he withholds it and you or somebody else misses it. You got the idea? It takes the action, then the pc’s withholdingness and then somebody missing the withhold for this thing to really go up in a cloud of blue smoke. You see that?
It’s sort of the way you fire a depth charge: you can put a 16-inch shell through a depth charge without exploding the thing. But a tack hammer hammered against one end of it, igniting a primer, igniting ground-up TNT then ignites solid TNT and you get an explosion. And you’d never get an explosion unless it went exactly on that route. And that’s the way a missed withhold goes together. It’s been sitting there ready to be withheld and ready to be missed. See?
So getting in your middle rudiments on a pc in a listing session, particularly, or a goals finding session, it’s very important that when you’ve had an ARC break or it’s a big chop-up or you don’t understand what’s going on with the pc and he’s still ARC broke, that you get your middle rudiments in in such a fashion as to get any withhold which might have been keyed in outside the area of the session. See? Because the boob probably keyed in something earlier. Got that? That’s quite important.
So all right. You just go right on to the end of the session. You list, list, list, list, list-just carrying on with what I was telling you how to run a listing session. You go right on to the end of the session right up to the-to the clock and give him the business with the end rudiments and bring him right on out of session. In other words, you check nothing else, you prepcheck nothing else, you do nothing, nothing, nothing, except list. Got it?
All right. Now, that’s all listing sessions consist of
Now, what happens if you go to free needle on a line? You go to free needle on a line?
Well, you ask him the question and it doesn’t disturb it. Well, now this is why four: four are never going to jam nothing. See, just four items. It isn’t going to jam anything. But you might be careful toward the end of the thing and only get one item if you were starting to run into lots of free needles. Got the idea? You could do your four straight on through without ruining the pc.
See, you would just go-the way-a listing session has very little to do with the meter. See, you can watch your meter and watch your TA action. Make sure your TA action is continuing because your TA action isn’t continuing, your pc’s out of session. Middle rudiments are out, see. And-or you didn’t tiger drill the goal to read, see. It’s mostly tiger drilling the goal to read-that’s the important thing in beginning the session. You get TA action if you get to keep that goal tiger drilled.
All right. Now, it has got that-you’ve got the goal to read and then you list it. And you’ve got written across the top of the sheet of paper (you can usually double column these), you write the title of the line, you see-the whole line wording across the top of the sheet-and then you come down here over on the left and you write four items and then you put a tick and that tick goes just below and to the left of the fourth word.’ It’s just a little strike of the pencil. Why?. That’s because you then never have to add up the lines to find out if you’ve got four or not, see? It’s always apparent that the unit is four. And that’s counting the next four because you can very easily see if you have four without doing any numbering.
And then you write those four and then you flip the sheet, see, to the next page and you write the four and you flip the sheet to the next page and you write the four and so forth. And you can have a whole mass of things and you can put-if you can make it-two columns to the sheet. And then, of course, each sheet has a back with two columns on it. And you have as many sheets as you have lines. And this makes very neat listing and the pc gets monotonously used to having a piece of paper flipped over in front of his face. You got it?
All right. Now, it becomes embarrassing when you start running out of captioned things in the middle. And nobody’s had a solution to this yet. I’ve-we might have a mirror clip or something that reads the line on the back of the sheet while you’re writing on the front of it or something. You get what I mean? I mean, you haven’t got any lines prepared and you’ve got no sheets prepared, and where are we going now? You see. Well, you solve that the best you can. Right now the technology concerned with that is summatable in a four letter word: cope.
Now, you’ll find out that one listing session isn’t going to knock the goal badly out of read, and in fact will improve its read. And ordinarily, unless you’ve run a very lousy session, indeed, why-you know, run it with the rudiments all out and you never got them in in the first place and you missed all the reads and all this sort of thing-you’ll find out ordinarily that if you read your goal at the end (and you ought to do this a time or two just to see the facts of the case) ”To catch catfish,” pow! ”To catch catfish,” pow! you know? I mean that thing is really reading then. And you’ll find out at the beginning of the next session it isn’t reading at all.
Well, what happened?
Well, pcs think. It’s unfortunate, but they do. Some pcs are awful busy. I almost say this to pcs sometimes and I think I’ve been known to, is: ”My God, you’ve been busy,” you know? ”What a busy, busy pc.”
You know: ”Think, think, think, think, figure, figure, figure, figure - invalidate, invalidate-suggest, suggest, suggest, suggest-fail to reveal, fail to reveal, fail to reveal, fail to reveal-mistake, mistake. Could it be a mistake? Mistake, mistake, mistake-mistake, mistake. Well, I’d better suppress the whole thing! Now, if I’m very careful until the next session, nothing will happen to the goal.” You see? Pretty wild. Busy.
Anyhow, it’s very strange what listing a goal will do for a goal. But, remember this about goals; remember this about goals: that listing-this is by actual test-listing will not polish up a goal all by itself
In other words, you can’t take a goal which is totally out of read and then list on it for a while and make it read. Now, I’ve already seen that tested and I have finally come to that conclusion. That conclusion might be based on firmer evidence, I might have examined it longer but I’ve just examined three pcs whose goal had been found a long time ago, who’d had the goal listed but nobody had ever polished up the goal for a period of months and months-in one case, a whole year-nobody had ever polished up that goal, it had only been listed, it was totally submerged, the pc’s tone arm was way up and stuck, the pc looked like hell and nobody could make the goal read. You understand?
So that was good enough evidence for me. Because when I went in and rolled up my sleeves and tiger drilled the thing I got it to a total flat. Then I did a Dynamic Assessment and came right back to the same goal and got it firing like crazy. But it took that much to get that goal firing again, see? It took that much. And it also took a whole lot of, ”In auditing, on the goal blankety-blank, has anything been suppressed?” You know, a whole lot of that type of Tiger Drill and I finally got that goal firing again. But remember that goal had been listed in the interim. That’s interesting, isn’t it?
So listing in absence of Tiger Drilling at the beginning of every session is liable to find your pc getting lumpy. In other words, they’re liable not to go Clear unless you do this. That’s the secret back of it: you’ve got to keep the goal firing and keep the listing constant and regular and routine.
Now, let’s get into self-auditing on listing. Can it be done? Yes, if somebody’s around to tiger drill the goal. And if somebody holds the club over the pc and says, ”You list these lines and that is it. You don’t list any other lines but these.”
You could do this. This is not necessarily optimum. It’s probably a long way from optimum, but I can tell you already it can be done.
Now, how far this can be done is determinable by somebody sitting down and tiger drilling the goal into action at routine and regular intervals, see? But that’s sort of on the emergency basis. You understand? That’s getting out there to an emergency. It can be done. It isn’t done well. And one of the reasons it isn’t done well-one of the reasons it isn’t done well is because the pain and sen will appear on the wrong lines. You got that?
Sounds funny, but the guy auditing himself is going into different valences and there’s no auditor to give him the commands so he skips over into other valences to give himself the command and he gives the command to another valence. You got the idea? And therefore you louse up where the pain and sen belong. You got that figured out? You know, he goes into the oppose line to list the want. You understand? He goes into the want line to list the oppose. So he gets the sen and the pain in the wrong places. And this gets him awfully confused. You see, there’s a liability to that. So self-auditing is different than being listed on it. But there’s a possibility of doing so. Okay? Emergency situation.
All right. Now, there’s a great deal to know about goals and goals listing and so forth. And I’d better give you what I can think of right here in an awful hurry because it isn’t down anyplace else.
Now, when you are proving out a goal, you will find that sen occurs, sensation, by which we mean motion-sensation is a pressure-and misemotion and by the way, sexual sensation, all of those things occur on the Suppress, Careful of and Fail to reveal buttons. And on Invalidate, Suggest and Mistake you get pain.
Now, you’re somewhere close to the guy’s right goal or somewhere close to his goals channel when it behaves that way. But on a checkout of an actual goal you get pain. The only place you’ll get sen is when you’re hitting Suppress, Careful of and Fail to reveal. You’re liable to get some sen when you’re running those, but otherwise you’re going to get pain, and pain is dominant in a checkout. If you’re checking out the right goal, the pc’s got pain; that’s dominant. There’s more pain there than there is sen and when you finally got it all the way checked out there is no sen-no sen at all and only pain. Got that? Because just to some degree you haven’t tiger drilled it enough if he’s still got sen. You got-you see how this is?
Now, don’t worry about this too much if your imperfections of auditing and pc’s out-of-sessionness and another thing leaves some sen on his right ear while his throat is being cut with a very sharp knife repeatedly. See? Don’t worry about this. Just make sure, for the rule of thumb, that it’s lots of pn, see? He’s got to have pn. The pc who has no pain while the goal is being checked out is not being checked out on his goal. That’s one very fast way of knowing about it. But that, by the way, isn’t enough to stop checking out a goal. You are honor-bound to check a goal until it neither has pain nor sen. And that will keep you from erring anyway.
As long as he’s got pain or sensation that began at the time you started checking the goal-that began during the course of your checking-you’ve got to continue until there ain’t none. In other words, that doesn’t mean you’ve got to continue the session till there isn’t any, but you’ve got to keep on that course of events, session after session, until there isn’t any. You understand? Because some goals might possibly go as long as six and a half hours to a fade. That’s horrible, isn’t it?
I did a goal in Washington-was marvelous, made a horrible liar out of me. I checked it for about an hour. It wasn’t firing beautifully, but it sure looked like a goal. Man, it sure looked like a goal. It was ”to be totally aware.” Man, did that look like a goal! Well, I said, ”That’s good enough for me! Ha! Nothing to it.” Turns out that it was the principal ending on the pc’s old goal. It was a modifier. The pc’s old goal went just before it. It sounded just like a goal, you understand. So, of course, it checked out hard. And it moved back into the pc’s old goal and of course, it dropped out and the old goal stayed in. But that was only because it was a consecutive goal. You got the idea? It followed all the rules-my God, it had rocket reads and everything else.
That-don’t make that shiver you to death on this because it only took another-about another half an hour or so. Took about an hour and a half of fooling before that thing did a fade. And then this was all being done in the face of a found goal. See? This wasn’t very-would never be true of new goals. This is patching it up. You’re running across all sorts of oddities in patching things up.
But you could hammer and pound away at a goal and pound away and hammer at a goal and have the thing fade; have it go. Oh dear, and you’re about ready to pass in the checks and hand in your thetan and so forth, when you all of a sudden remember I told you in a lecture, ”In auditing on the goal ‘to catch catfish’…” And you brighten up and start tiger drilling it on that and it comes back and reads again and it is the goal after all. And goals are heartbreakers to this degree: they go in and they go out.
Now. Pain. This is the absolute rule, if we can get as close to an absolute, but it is an absolute to that degree just within this framework: must be present. Pain must be present during a checkout. Whatever else is happening, some pain’s got to be there.
And in listing, pain must be present. When the goal has not been adequately tiger drilled, listing occurs without pain even on the right goal and isn’t running out anything. You understand that? You just set off and you don’t tiger drill this goal and you just go on and list-mm-mm. Pc gets sen, sen, sen, sen, sen, sen, sen. There’s no pain anyplace.
Now, that’s also true of a wrong goal, don’t you see? A right goal, with the goal made to read at the beginning of the session on listing will give the pc pain. There will be some pain and there will be some sensation. But it must have pain. Whatever else happens, there must be pain during the listing. You understand? You got to be alert to this. So that’s something else you have to look for while you’re listing. Is the pc occasionally letting out feeble little yips? If he isn’t, he’s not all right, oddly enough. Sounds-sounds funny, you know. But it’s true.
You say, ”Always before in this universe we have carefully avoided pain. Now, we carefully avoid those things which don’t give people pain.” Probably you’ll have a hard time raveling… I think it’s about time, though, for the whole flow to reverse, so you’ll probably do this very comfortably.
Now, there’s-there are some musts. There are some musts. You start worrying during a listing session when the pc is getting no pain. Now, understand we don’t care what line the pain occurs on. You understand? Just wipe out the old rule that it’s got to occur on one and three. We don’t care what line it occurs on as long as it occurs. Pain can occur on one and three. Pain can clear-can occur on two and four of any series.
Why? Because pcs get in wrong valences. They can be totally switched around on this and have pain gorgeously occurring on two and four and sensation roaring on one and three. That is not meaningful; it’s just the pc is stuck in another part of the bank at the moment and probably feeding the auditing command through to an old friendly valence that he had, you know, some old witch. There’s some circuitry going on; some other things are occurring.
But these are the things to know about listing. Tiger drill it in. Run a good, smooth session. Rat-a-tat-tat, pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa. And you’ll find out it’s very easy to do.
But the four per line-four items per line-and sixteen or more lines solve any problem you’re having with listing. It just goes off dead easy. There’s no fumble; there’s no sitting there waiting for the pc to think of another answer and ARC breaking him because he went to sleep and you woke him up-there isn’t any of this nonsense occurs in the session. And of going on and on and on and running out of paper on one line and then having to go back and find some paper on another line and how many did you list where and-pooey. See? This is all for the birds. You’ll find listing is as easy as you keep it pocketa-pocketa-pocketa at an even groove, see.
You say, ”Who or what ?” And he gives you one and he doesn’t seem to be in the mood to give you anymore. You want to watch a pc. Don’t give him the command as he’s saying one or you’ll get him all suppressed. See? And, he gives you one and you give him the command and he gives you one, you give him the command and he gives you one, you give him the command and you give him one-that’s all. And of course, you acknowledge him each time he occurred.
And you’ll find the pc very rapidly gets up into this frame of mind: you give him the command once, he gives you four answers and you acknowledge. See?
Remember the answer doesn’t-the question never asks him for one, see? So it’s not a disobedience of the auditing. It doesn’t ask him for one. It says ”who or what” and both of those are plural.
So normally he gets into a groove like this: You say, ”Who or what would want to catch catfish?” He gives you four. ”Who or what would not want to catch catfish?” He gives you four. ”Who or what would oppose catching catfish?” He gives you four. ”Who or what would not oppose catching catfish?” He gives you four. You got it?
And you just acknowledge and write them down, your pencil flying, ”Cheerio, cheerio, cheerio, cheerio.”
Now, some auditors won’t like this. They haven’t any-any boil-off periods in which to catch up their notes.
But you can really keep it flying. And that’s very fast clearing.
Now, what happens toward the end of this listing-whole series of sessions? What happens? What happens on the meter?
Well, it starts to go free.
What is a free needle? You’ll know it when you see it.
Is a free needle a quarter of an inch wide? No.
Is a free needle a half an inch wide? No.
Is a free needle a dial wide? No.
Does a free needle have a pattern to the left and right? No.
Does a free needle have a pattern to the right and left? No.
Well, then, what is a free needle?
Well, a free needle is a free needle. You’ve never seen anything like it till you’ve seen a free needle. There’s no describing it. It looks like it’s floating on air or something. It’s disconnected.
The auditor’s-one of the auditor’s first responses when he first Sees a free needle is to get a hold of the cable, see, and check the cable and plug it in and out.
And then his worst mistake is to say, ”Hey, hey, hey look, I got a free needle on you!” When he turns it back again, it isn’t free. It just floats, that’s all. It doesn’t float in any pattern. That is what is peculiar about it, see, it doesn’t have any pattern.
Once in a blue moon a free needle appears to hit heart beats or it appears to hit breathing or it appears to hit something else. But a tight needle can also hit these things. We don’t care what it hits; it’s free.
You-this would not happen, but you could say the pc has just murdered his grandmother. You ask him the question, ”have you murdered your grandmother?” And the needle won’t register, see. It’s a non-registering needle. That’s all it is and it floats.
Now, should the pc always be at his Clear read as you come toward the end of listing sessions?
Nope. The thing will fly around as much as one and a half divisions on the tone arm dial just before he goes Clear totally.
The last two days-now, let’s take up the grimness of listing sessions - the last two days or three days of listing sessions are the worst. The pc gets better and better and better and then stays along and is doing all right and is doing all right and is doing all right and then gets better and better and then is doing all right and is doing all right and then gets a bit worse and then gets a little more worse and then is doing better and he’s doing fine and he’s getting along all right and he’s doing better and he’s doing better and then he gets a little bit worse and then he gets a little bit worse and then he gets a little bit worse and then he gets a little bit worse-and then he gets very worried and he gets very invalidated and he’s not sure that you’re the right auditor or those are the right lines or this is the right universe.
You’ve brought him down to a point of stand and deliver. You’re within just probably dozens of items of the goal springing. And he’s thinking of this goal as really something. This goal is real valuable. All kinds of wild ideas are going through his head.
Why did he ever start this clearing in the first place? Because, look, he obviously will never be able to catch catfish again if he gives this thing up. And it’s a terrible situation that he’s run into.
And, furthermore, he won’t have any game. That’s what’s worrying him. If he gives this goal up now then he won’t have any game anymore. And there’s no game to play except catching catfish and if he gives up the goal - this is his logic, if you want to call it such, idiot’s logic, see-if you stopped cat-if you gave up the goal ”to catch catfish” then you would stop catching catfish, then you’d no longer be interested in catching catfish so, therefore, there’s only one game in the world which is catching catfish. So this means therefore, that you would only have one game and that would be gone, which would leave you as gameless. And this is not tolerable and this is something that’s too horrible to contemplate. And the pc giving up just the last, last struggling line-a few lines, see, a few items, so forth, get-really gets in a terrible state. And you really have to persuade him through this. Then all of a sudden, why, he says, ”Oh, well, there it goes. There’s-there’s the-there’s-za-za-za-za-za-there’s nothing there.”
I guess he expected to meet somebody, George Washington. Because it’s just nothing and it just all went pfiff, see, there’s nothing left. And he says, ”Well, gee-whiz, you know, I feel good, I feel wonderful; this is terrific.”
If you’d ask him at that time, ”Would you like to go out and catch some catfish?” he’d say, ”Sure, I’ll go out and catch catfish; it’s as good as doing anything else. However, I want to try whistling at blondes.” Because he’s already thinking about putting in the next postulate.
But there-it’d take him a long time to get it stacked up like that again. And he’s really not in good enough shape to put it in the way he did the first time.
Anyway-fortunately-the situation is-this, I want to impress this on you-is the listing out of a goal is not a smooth snore. It has its rough spots. The pc will start to get somatics-sharp, impersistent, that feel exactly like the original accident. You know, being stabbed in the back with a knife feels like being stabbed in the back with a knife. And they get flinchy sometimes on somatics. And then this passes away and then they don’t care about it. And they have to run out. But they get flinch-they get so they flinch on these things and so forth. And they do various things.
Now, the course of action of a somatic is, early on, they tend to be rather dull and persistent; dull and persistent. Fellow’s got a head somatic and he’ll tell you day after day after day after day, week after week after week after week about-this all depends on how long he’s being audited or whether he is being audited at the time-about how this pain in his head or this pain in his foot or this pain in his stomach is pretty bad. You know, it’s persistent.
And then you get to about the middle part of listing and they come on and they go off. You know, it’s they come on like turning up a light by rheostat, you know? And they go off by shutting it down by rheostat. You know, it just gets dimmer and dimmer and there it goes. All right.
Now, you get down to the end of the thing and, man, they’re on and they’re off with a click of the switch. See? Bang! You know? It’s gone; it was here and it left. That is a symptom of winding up. You’re getting on down toward the end of listing when this is occurring. And they’re getting sharper and they’re getting swifter. And the pc’s actually much more able to brace up to them and, you know, he doesn’t care about them as much in spite of the fact it hurts like hell. They occasionally will say, ”Yipe!” You know? And this, of course, is why they resist getting Clear: it’s those last residual somatics.
Now they actually are not resisting going Clear at all. They just don’t quite like to face up to that. That’s why it’s a good idea to have an auditor on listing. Somebody’s going to list by himself off in northern Saskatchewan or someplace, and all that’s very fine. But he’ll hit one of these bogs or he’ll hit a wonderful spot, you know, ”I feel wonderful.”
There’s no-the guy isn’t Clear yet but he feels wonderful. Be suspicious, because it’s probably like inhaling the air and throwing out the arms on the upper edge of the Grand Canyon without watching where you’re going. That expansive outfling of the arms and that gorgeous inhalation of the ozone is very often accompanied by a pale scream as he goes southward. He hits the manic and he hits the depressive. Don’t you see? And he’ll be up feeling good again.
But halfway through with the lines not even vaguely listed out, a pc who begins to feel wonderful, he just feels wonderful, watch it, man. He’s going to drag himself into session in the next day or so saying, ”I feel terrible!”
He’s gone over these manic ridges and that sort of thing. But he goes all the way through those things.
Now, of course, when it’s all-out clear you know when it’s clear because it’s blown.
He’ll tell you it’s blown many times too. I-I forgot to tell you that one. ”It’s blown! Yeah.” Comes in in the morning, ”Well, we needn’t list on that anymore; I haven’t any more items for these lines because it’s blown.” You know?
You put him on the needle, you know and there he is with a good old stuck, sticky needle, you know. You say, ”Well, good; just list enough to get - let me check this out.” You see?
And about the first two items he’ll give you, it’ll be, ”Yipe, ouch, yaah!” and he won’t mention anymore its having blown. Yeah.
Anyway, anyway, the beauty of it is, it all comes to pass. And when he-when he’s through that-when he’s through that series of jumps, he’s through it.
When the goal is actually clear the needle will stay free and continue to be free if you’ve listed all the lines all the way out, it will continue to be free up till the time you find the next goal.
Now, in view of the fact that he knows you’re going to find the next goal, don’t be too upset if he starts to look for it before you start to look for it and find the needle all going gummy. It’s not going gummy on what you did; it’s going gummy on what you’re going to do. And that’s-that’s the way that goes.
How many goals it takes to go to OT, I don’t know-can’t tell you at this time but it’s probably some finite number.
Anyway, there is the whole course of listing. There’s items. There’s the lot. And that’s a listing session. And that’s how you do it.
Listing can be done by HCAs. Listing is not necessarily a Class IV Auditor activity. But it takes smooth auditing. It takes very nice auditing. It takes very good TR 2 to carry it through. And, of course, the guy has to be kind of a sharpie to keep the thing tiger drilled.
Now, if listing is being done on an HCA level, why, there must be somewhere around a supervising auditor that can occasionally take a look at it because, God knows, what stream they will go aground on or how-what shape those lines will get into. And with bursts of enthusiasm they’ve all of a sudden added two extra lines onto the end of it.
And the goal ”to catch-catfish-” the pc also had an idea that he might have a goal, ”to be soulful,” see? And, they’ve got Dover sole and other things written down on this other line. They’re liable to go astray. You understand? So you have to keep your eye on it and just keep them on the groove I gave you and the fellow will go Clear.
And of course, you know that free needles to date have been going Clear on the four lines. And just give you one idea of this they also have stacked up a bit. Those people who have been four-line listed to free needle be-on being given an indifferently patched up sixteen-line list, whistled a sigh of relief and were very happy because parked someplace over on the northeast sector of the bank, they had all these rabbits they hadn’t been able to dispose of. And they were very, very happy to write those rabbits down on the list. So that tells you that we were right in going in this particular way.
Okay?
Thank you.