6810C02 Class VIII TAPE 9



THE LAWS OF LISTING AND NULLING





Well, this is lecture number what? (Nine) Lecture number 9

and this is 2 October 1968 A.D.



We're concerned this evening with some very precise

actions and so we will get straight along with it.



The laws of listing and nulling are a common and ordinary

garden variety subject of attack.



There are more cooks have more cock-eyed variations and

more advice on this subject than any other single thing,

because of course it is the one subject that can ruin a PC,

bongo! Now the laws of listing and nulling are not

something that you wonder about. You know them. You know

them or you don't know them. And you know them now. And you

can do them. Now I call to your attention that reading to

you the laws of listing and nulling is something like

reading to you the directions on how to play a piano. Do I

make my point?



You can all know where a middle C is. Now auditing is a

relatively simple piano. But nevertheless it is something

to be played. It is not something to know about. The maker

of the piano never crosses the mind of a concert pianist.

Where middle C is is not something he looks down the

keyboard. He isn't wondering what those black things are.

Now somebody can play a piano with one finger - ta - ta -

ta - ti - ta - to - ta. And somebody can play Chopin. And

the difference between these two fellows is: is one knows

his business and the other maybe in his elementary school

read a paper that said: 'A piano is an instrument which has

black and white keys.' "You get the difference?



Now it isn't that people can't read directions and then

apply them. It's that they misestimate the amount of

expertise required to actually apply them. So we get some

student some place and he reads a bulletin and he knows all

of these things. It is just exactly as he said 'Where is

the loud pedal?' 'The loud pedal is on the right.' 'Where

is the soft pedal?' 'The soft pedal is on the left.' In the

middle of playing the overture of 1812 he thinks now I want

to make it go loud, the loud pedal is on the right - left,

which was it, it's on the ...  maybe it's the lever over to

the side. Oh, I haven't put the top up. So then he has a

stage-assistant who comes in and when he wants it to go

loud he has him put the top up and when he wants it soft he

puts the top down.



You get the general idea. In playing the piano you want it

to go loud, you stamp on the loud pedal without wondering

where the loud pedal is."



So it is one thing to know it in theory and it is another

thing to apply it, but there is no peculiarity in

something, on somebody who can know it in theory and then

can't apply it. This isn't a strange being, it is simply a

lazy being who has never mocked it up in his skull as to

what was where, you understand? So he knows the words, 'the

laws of listing and nilling - not nulling, nilling. What he

doesn't know about that one line is, that these are all the

laws there are, there aren't any others, there aren't a

bunch of hidden data, that haven't been included in this

bulletin. These are it. This is all there is. So there is

something to know about the title. So he isn't reading at

all wondering what laws of listing and nulling have been

left out. He knows that's all there is.



Now the rest of it is drill, drill. You are making a list

of 'Who have you shot?' Of course that would be a very long

list and wouldn't go to one item. But ...  (laughing) ... 

'Who do you feel most bad about shooting' would go to one

item and oddly enough the unmock - and stop - and

withdraw - list do go to one item. There are certain things

that are lists that go to one item and those are the

standard listing questions.



Now you start wandering off, you can list anything, but you

start wandering off the standard listing questions, that

are the standard line questions and you are liable to have

a question which doesn't just go to one item. Now there is

such a ...  such a thing that it is processing question and

actually the only reason you are listing it down is so you

can clean it up. You get the idea? Now it looks like a list

but it's not a list, because it's not a standard question.

You got the idea?



I'll give you an idea of what this is. You can say 'What is

wrong with my case?' Actually you could list this 'What is

wrong with my case?' That is, it looks like a list, it

looks like a listing question and you think you could list

it down to one reading item. Brother, I've got news for

you. It isn't a proper listing question. The laws of

listing and nulling apply to proper listing questions. If

you were to say 'What is wrong with my case?' and then make

a list and you said bongo-bingo and togobak and ragbags are

unflat and auditors missed on the floggodick. it could go

something like this: Bongo-bingo long fall, ragbags unflat

small fall .. ah .. ah .. ruggerbo long fall BD. And you all 

of a sudden say, 'Well, what is wrong with my case is ruggerbo 

BD. Well, maybe, maybe not, but all of a sudden it wouldn't work 

out.



Why wouldn't it work out? Well it's not a proper listing

question in the first place and you have already by-passed

the by-pasted charge you have restimulated on the first two

or three that read, so this is a list quote unquote.



It is simply an auditing question is all it is. It's an

auditing question which is written down. So you can ask any

auditing question, you can get a certain number of answers.

Factually, if you ask an auditing question and then you

make a write-down of the answers and then you took up

everyone of the answers as you wrote it down, you get one

of these 'What is wrong with my case?' 'What is wrong with

my case?' You see? Tingerwaps fall, okay. Tingerwaps, let's

see, when did I run into tingerwaps? See? Oh yeah, that was

a bluggulogs. Good. Ah, and then you get down to ragbags.

Wow! See? Oh yeah, wow! Uhum 1960 woff woff waggle waggle

waffle waffle waffle and yeah, what the hell do you know

about that, there's a whole chain of these ragbags. Now,

the earliest ragbag was in oh let's see 2000 numbers tough

here let's get a date. Order of magnitude. Tens of years.

hundreds of years. Thousands of years. Tens of thousands of

years. Hundreds of thousands of years. Millions of years.

Tens of millions of years. hundreds of millions of years.

Billions of years. Tens of billions of years. hundreds of

billions of years. Trillions of years fall. More than 5

trillion - fall. More than ten trillion - no read. Less

than ten trillion - fall. Ah ...  5 trillion, 6 trillion, 7

trillion, 7 trillion, 7 trillion long fall. All right,

we're in the order of magnitude of 7 trillion 954 million

762 thousand 727.



Good. And 2 months - BD. Well, so that was the first

ragbag. Now let's see, what the hell was that all about?

And so forth. What the hell mate, Peter had an ARC break in

it. They sent the laundry ashore and didn't get it back.

Yeah. We landed in this space right here and I lost all of

my clothes and the uniform was so bad, you know after that

they couldn't believe I was the first mate. Oh yeah - I got

that. Em.. poh.. what the hell do you know! Ragbags! Clean!

(laugh) Good. Now, wait a minute - F/N.



That's an auditing process by which you take up everything

in the book. It's, you wrote the thing down with a question

mark, but then it was a sort of a process. And then you got

some items which followed the process. Do you follow? And

then you handled each item and so on.



Now, you don't do that process that way for some peculiar

reason - not because I said so - you see it's an illegal

listing question, it's it's not a listing question, it's a

..  it's a ...  it's a process, an offbeat process - not

because I said so, but because it just works this way. Now

we get a question 'Who or what is trying to unmock you?'

(laugh) Ba ba ba - ba ba - ba ba ba ba ba -long fall BD!

Poom! Okay. Ba bow bow - ba bow bow - ba bow bow - ba bow

bow - ba bow bow - ba bow bow long fall BD - long fall BD -

BD. Very good. Your item is 'Ba bow bow.' And that is

because it is a question which makes a real list and it

goes to one item. But there are tons of questions which

don't go to one item. And you can dream up all kinds of

them and I see them in all folders from way back when. Ah..

Where are the roofs? you see, or something.



I'll give you one that sounds exactly like it would be a

listing question. This will guarantee to wrap some PC

around the telegraph pole. 'What environment was

dangerous?' So help me Pete it doesn't go to one item. Now

you've got to worry that it is an offbeat question and it

didn't list to one item and you can't get it down to one

item and the PC starts wrapping around the telegraph pole.

That's because it's actually just a process. It's a sort of

an out-of-ARC-process, so it is extremely limited. 'What

environment was dangerous?' And every read you got on the

list you should have taken up. (laugh) If you ever - if you

ever ran it as a process, see.



So there is a way of running a process to write it down.

Now theoretically, theoretically, because you often see an

F/N occur and a big BD - on any of the process questions,

theoretically they should be a list, right? Well, I'm

clearing this up with you because somebody is sooner or

later going to come along and he's going to say: "Wait a

minute - all processes are really lists. The fellow who is

answering a question on level 0 is really making a list. So

therefore the right way to run level 0 is to go down the

line to level 0 and find the reading item an give it to the

PC." Now he finds the one PC in a thousand on whom this

actually worked and he has had it. You understand, it is a

process, it is not a listing question. And the funny part

of it is, the processes that come up the line don't work.



Now - ARC-question - the level 3 question, the big change,

you know, the big change. It's just borderline to being an

item. It's a one-item-list. A funny thing about it is

because the unlimited nature of ARC, you can actually

occasionally run it again. You'd better not, but you can

actually occasionally run it again. Not the ARC-process

with all the change but you can find an earlier big change

on the whole track. So you can run it sort of this lifetime

and you can sort of run it on the whole track. This is not

advised, I'm just telling you the behavior of things, see.



But you find the real change that is listed on on the list

the PC makes and you run the process just exactly the way

it says in R3H - anybody is liable to call anything R3H

these days, it was an exact process.



I had somebody not too long ago actually rewrite an HCOB

and send it to me on R3H. Boy, I said, now I have seen it

all. And I find out that he was advising people to by-pass

F/Ns doing this. Oh my god! The ARC-break registrar's

proper action is Green Form. That's all an ARC-break

registrar should ever do. Green Form. He should do Green

Form - itsa similar - itsa earlier - it's all he ever ought

to do. It doesn't mess up anything. You can run almost an

unlimited number of them, because it is sort of a PT

proposition because you're just handling it with itsa and

earlier similar itsa and you clean up more cases than you

can shake a stick at.



The ARC-break registrar however thinks he can only run

ARC-breaks. Well he misses the guy with the PTPs, he misses

the guy with the MWH. And why do most people blow orgs?

Because they had missed withholds. So that's idiocy. I've

never gotten hold of the ARC-break registrars and told them

this up to this time directly to their faces, so I am

trusting you to do so.



Green Form! Green Form! Never do anything but a Green Form.

And because you probably can't trust their listing and so

forth say: 'don't list anything'. No list, no list - just

Green Form.



Yeah, he says, what if he strikes, he's connected to a

suppressive group? Good - itsa similar incident earlier

itsa (laugh). Oddly enough you'll find out it works, don't

you see? It worked like a bomb.



Now, if his TRs are fairly smooth he won't kick in BPC. You

actually can kick in by-passed charge of the PC, if the ..

if a, if the TRs are out. Fumble, bumble, stumble bum..ah..

flumble, flumble - let's see the laws of listing and

nulling I know.. I know.. I know this.. don't tell me..

don't don't tell me PC.. ah don't tell me.. ah .. I should

. let's see ... I've got three listing .. don't tell me PC ...  

three reading items on the list .. and so on .. I should .... 

that means it's the first item...  no no that isn't right .. 

ah...  it's a dead horse...  no no no no (laughter). You're 

liable to kick in some other time when the PC has been stalled 

on the track in some fashion or another, which he is in most

accidents and things. You know, waiting for the doctor or

something of the sort. And here comes in some BPC, and this

hidden factor flies in sideways because of the slowness and

all-thumbs-ness of the auditor, see. Do you get it? It

doesn't show up in the auditing report.



Always very mysterious this fellow for some reason or other

. he .. the thing didn't clear up.



Now you know it didn't clear up because the session went on

and on and it's a four hour and 95 minutes session, see.

(laugh) And all he had to straighten out was did he have a

PTP, not even of long duration, see. It's what you really

wanted him to do, so you said check ARC-breaks and see if

this PC has a PTP of long duration. You've noticed.. you've

noticed that every time .. every time he comes into session

he tells the examiner the same thing. It's all through the

folder, which of course, if you know your business, the

unchanging case has a PTP of long duration. The cases which 

don't change have a PTP of long duration. I mean, the one 

side of the coin is the other side of the coin. You understand?



Well, here's .. here's .. here's Mr Blitz in here again

with his lumbosis. He says it hasn't been helped. Now you

can say, 'Oh let's see, what's the matter? Is he an

.. ARC-break or is it woff woff'. Is it some peculiar kind

of case. Maybe he was an Eskimo in a former life and these

engrams got frozen. (laughter).The datum which springs to

view at this particular moment is he still got his

lumbosis. It is still worrying him and he's got a PTS of

long duration and the other datum you know: it isn't the

lumbosis for the excellent reason that he knows that and it

hasn't resolved. So he hasn't as-ised it.



There could be another reason he hasn't as-ised it: he is

out of valence and can't as-is anything, but then he would

have to be out of valence with the present time problem.

But it isn't really a present time problem. It's a problem

that has been every present time for the last few thousand

years. (laughter) So, the problem of long duration, that's

what is wrong with this guy and he is always audited over

top of it - unchanging case. It's actually PTP. Every time

he's audited he has a PTP. Ah.. you can actually fix up a

case so it's unchanging by some auditor finding a PTP, that

didn't exist, existing with the fellow, has a PTP because

it always reads on PTP and the fellow goes around wondering

what his PTP is and his .. his problem is whether or not he

has a problem. You see, that's a false read, that can be

introduced on the case, so you always say 'check for false

reads, check for suppressed reads'.



Now, getting down to cases here then there is a thing which

is called a list and that proceeds from a thing which is

called a standard listing question and there are very few

of these. There's the Remedy A, the Remedy B. the three

suppressive question ones and there is another one

'What are you trying to prevent?' Now there are several

more that do end up in one item. And the ARC level 3 grade 

ends up in one time. Not just one ARC break, but it ends up 

for sure in one time. Do you understand? Now you can fool 

with this ARC break all you want to and run it all over the 

track, but the fact of it is you're looking for the major 

change in the person's life - you ask for the major change 

in the person's life. Don't you see? Whatever the question 

says, what you want as an auditor, you want that one change. 

Now you list for that. You find that thing accurately, you 

find the ARC break in it and the guy goes release. Poom! 

Very magical! Very magical!



Now, service facsimile. Every now and then you come across

the line and you can't rehab the service facsimile. You'd

never relist the service facsimile for the excellent reason

that the PC can't remember it. Don't be an idiot. You've

cared for this already. (laughter) It's erased. Why are you

bugging him about it? But the funny part of it is,  you

actual could list for another service facsimile - not that

he has another Service facsimile but you can always get one

out of a body thetan. So actually if the fellow had 500

body thetans you'd get 500 service facsimiles.

(laughter) You could probably do it 500 times before the PC

kicked the bucket. (laughter) Most body thetans are above

service fac, below service facsimiles, so you.. the

majority of them are.. so you would have a ball trying to

get it. But the point I am making is, is you've listed for

this service facsimile, that is the principal one and so on

and you let it go at that. Well now if you can't rehab it

somebody didn't get the right one. Once in a while you are

out of luck you can't get the original list.



Now what do you do? They didn't get the guy's service

facsimile and so forth. Well you could do.. this is a very

stunty stuff and isn't advised at all, but it's perfectly

valid - to ask the guy what is his service facsimile, what

the one found was, and you'll find out he usually remembers

it. Now you ask him what the one found was, that you don't

have the original list.



You can list in this peculiar fashion once in a blue moon

and get away with it. What . . what were the items on the

list you made? (laughter) But in order to do that, you'd

have to get in suppress on the list because his right item

was missed. What did you tell the auditor you thought it

was? On whatever the question is with the service facsimile

- has anything been suppressed? Has anythiing been

challenged? You know. Invalidated - we don't care what, as

long as you clean up that question. 'No, I don't know what

service facsimile. I remember I got awfully nervous at that

particular time. I..I'm not sure about that... I did

yeah... well... we... they found it alright. The service

facsimile, I think, was to jump off tall - I don't know if

it was tall blondes or tall buildings. (laughter) It was

something like that.' Didn't sound like it. He isn't sure,

but already it won't rehab. And you say - did.. ah .. you

know.. to find your service facsimile and so forth and

etc... ah you know.. to go release at that point.



Normal pattern. Nothing happens. 'On that time was anything

suppressed? Anything invalidated? Invalidation reads.

Ah..oh.. it did yeah. his service facsimile hasn't been

found, it won't rehab. So now you can become the hassles.

"Do you recall what somebody said it was?"



'Yeah.. ah.. so and so .. so and so. (unclear mumbling) You

say - well, all right. You could prepcheck the question and 

ask him if he remembers any of the items he thought it was 

at the time. The oddity is you may be able to get it. It's 

very risky handling a list where you haven't got the list 

that was listed . A better approach entirely is to say: 

"Mr Jinx, we have arrived at that point where you're going 

to be laid off auditing until we can recover your earlier 

folder which, as I understand, is in Australia. We will tell 

you when we get it." And then make somebody in Australia send 

him the earlier auditing folder. Or make Joe Blitz who is in 

Alaska mail in that damned service facsimile.



You don't necessarily want the whole folder, but you for

sure want that list. It might have been some other

squirrely things. If you think it was very squirrely, why

you want it all sent in. And you want it now. In view of

the fact that you are normally operating in an

organization, those that I'm talking to at the moment are

certainly working at an organization, you have

communication lines where this can occur. It's the safer

thing to try to obtain the list. Get the actual list and

null it now. What's suppressed? On ba bow bow has anything

been suppressed? On ba ba bow bow has anything been

suppressed That reads. On ba ba bow has anything been

suppressed? That one reads, you know. On catawumbs has

anything been suppressed? See? Pow! On doggerbo has

anything been suppressed? No read. On rupptittle has any

thing been suppressed? Long fall. On the listing question

has anything been suppressed? Long fall. What was it? Oh

yeah, well the guy didn't run any list on it. (unclear

speech) As a matter of fact at that particular time and so

forth...  ah...  waggle waggle waggle waggle. Okay. Now

you've unsuppressed these items, call them again. Bluey and

blah. There are two reading items on the list. Ah.. but

everything on the list isn't live so therefore you haven't

by-passed the item. Now you get down here and you put a bar

over to the left side of the list and you say list extended

date and you put the additional items on the list and one

of them blows down. You renull the list to make sure ... the

whole list to make sure you haven't got anything reading

and that is it.



Sometimes a PC even gets restive and unhappy because you

list the whole list. Ah, there is a degree at which he is

saying wow wee, that is it wow wee, when you don't null

but you're taking a chance. You're taking a chance. You

actually are. So you've got the fellow's service facsimile

from the original list. That is the correct action.



Now once in a blue moon you have to do this other action,

which I'm talking to you about.



You get everything unsuppressed. Now you could even ask

'Was there anything you hadn't told this auditor?' You see,

the missed withhold. Ah, at that time were you ARC broken

about anything?' And so on - you can pick it up, see. Pick

it up. Pick it up. And any every one few of these you find

out it suddenly rehabs. It was the right service facsimile

and it did rehab, but it was listed over out Ruds and the

F/N declared on it war a false report, but it was the

correct service facsimile. Do you get the complications

that can occur here? Very complicated.



It all comes from this: now on one of the questions I just

asked on an examination, I better repeat this, the way

standard tech ceases to be standard tech is somebody has

already done something non-standard. The way to get

standard tech back in - he's missed some piece of standard

tech - the way to get it in is you find out what piece of

standard tech was missed and you remedy this. You got it?

And the case will then fly, because there are only so many

pieces to standard tech. See, wild things could have

occurred. He could have been listed standing on his head,

any damned thing could have occurred there, thousands of

outnesses that could have occurred in the session, this is

the one thing I've got to push home to you. There are

thousands and millions - an infinity of possible errors in

a session. Do you follow? The only error you are interested

in are those errors which violate standard tech. You got

it, you've got to get this point or you won't actually be

able to repair anybody. 



You look for the points of standard tech that have been violated - 

the session run over a PTS, the session run with a missed

withhold. Do you get it? The..the bird that walked in to

the org and they started to do engrams on him and he

couldn't run anything and ... (unclear speech) and so on.

His TA was up and so on and they went ahead and ran grades

and all this sort of thing, with the guy flubbed up madly

way back down the track on points of release. There weren't

any points of release ever rehabed on this case. They were

running ARC S/W without rehab. The guy came in, ran ARC

S/W, you see and got some results for God's sake. The TA

never really came down but he got results and he had a

cognition and he and so forth and that was pretty good and

actually they marked it that they had an F/N, but for some

reason the next time he came into session the TA was at 6

or something and then they're going to run Secondaries and

in some peculiar way Secondaries are run. And this case is

just doing a weird one. Well actually he walked in with a

high TA. What the hell is somebody off the street doing

with a high TA? Well, obviously he's been overrun. (laugh)

I know but he never had any auditing. He never even read a

book. But he's been overrun.



What overran him? Well, I want to call to your attention

that there it a lot of livingness going on. And also here

and there on the whole track, here and there on the whole

track they knew something dim about running engrams. They

didn't know it well and they didn't know enough not to

overrun it. Every point of these you find overruns

associated with them. There are various methods of getting

rid of engrams. In space opera society they had a sort of a

chopstick that came together with an awful crash while

showing the guy a photograph of the area he was injured in

and this was a signal to the thetan that he was supposed to

chop it up and wad it up into a ball and throw it away. If

you worked this area over and run that off you find the

original incident sitting there. That's quite fascinating.



But there was some effort from time to time to handle a

thetan's pictured here and there on the track it's been

known that a thetan had pictures. They didn't have any

other technology to back it up, but they had that and where

these were run you get an overrun. So this can happen, the

PC comes in and ARC S/W is great, Secondaries seem to be

alright and then engrams the TA went (whistles)...  'Is it

getting more solid?' 'Are we on the wrong chain?' What the

hell is this? It's an overrun on engrams. 



You won't find it an overrun on any other part of Scientology 

but you'll find occasionally an overrun on engrams. But most 

frequently it's an overrun on drugs and I would adventure to 

say that you occasionally have an overrun on life, just the 

subject of living, and you occasionally have the subjects of 

an overrun of dying - he's died too many times. (laughter) 



Well, his death is a release, what the hell. But you'd have 

to figure out what it is. What is it? What is it that's been

overrun? Well, it could be a lot of things been overrun, so

you'd better find out what's been overrun. Now what has

been overrun or what has been going on too long or what

have you done too often? Any version of the question that

would communicate is handled and it is not a list - it is a

process. But you get a read on this item and then you do a

standard rehab and then you ask - it didn't F/N - so you

ask for another one and you ask for the release on that.

And it's a little bit better and the TA comes down. And

then you ask for the next question and it didn't read and

then you ask for the next question and it read, so you

rehab that. And you keep this process up and if you do it

well you all of a sudden will have this sitting there

looking at an F/N. Go ahead. Dead simple. 



Now the fellow lives 50 or 100 years later and he's got a 

high TA, see, you could ask him again 'What has been overrun?' 

If the question reads there will be one, two, three items that

have been overrun and you rehab each one and you've got it

made. In other words all that is is a method of finding

areas to rehab and it's a process, not a list. Get the

difference. Alright! Now, in sequence there are two key

processes: 1. Valence Shifter. The Valence Shifter. 'What

valence or identity would be safe?' All right. List to one

item. Bong! Because you want to list it down to the bottom

of the pile and bongo! Which is followed by a question

'What can you confront?' which is a process. Now you can

actually write down these What-can-you-confronts and sooner

or later the guy's going to BD on something and sooner or

later some wiseacre is going to tell us that all processes

should be listed.



Now hear me, hear me good and clean, hear me very straight.

If you list a question which is not a one item question and

by-pass the reads on the items without handling them you

pack the case up. You'll pack the case up as neat as anything 

you ever packed up. So if you ever see on an auditing report

form, if you ever see on a worksheet 'What has been

overrun?' with item, item, blank, blank, item, you know

reading, item - reading, item reading, BD. And you just see

it there and you look back on the worksheet and you find

none of them have been handled.



The weird part of it is the case will have a tendency then

to be packed up. It is not something you do and correct

because you're trying to be pedantic, trying to be the

villain of the piece who says all the commas must be in the

right place. No, you'll find that the case is now packed

up. So somebody has got to go back over it again. That's

why you must always teach your auditors always to mark the

falls and BDs. Don't let them make a bunch of stuff

without. And you know, I see, most of the worksheets I see

these days, have no falls or BDs marked on them. There is

no SF for small fall, F for fall, ah.. LF for long fall.

You can't distinguish. And doing C/S work is very

difficult. It's no trick to writing these things down.



Now you would just see horror of horrors 'What has been

overrun?', some type of process of that particular

character which is really just a process and if you were to

see that listed with no falls after it, and the thing

wasn't even nulled, you're not really in trouble, you would

actually put in on the listing question 'On what has been

overrun has anything been suppressed, anything been

invalidated?' put them in very lightly, you're going to get

a lot of read out of it.



Ah.. very good, read the first question, on this has

anything been suppressed? Woof fall.



Good. Rehab it. In other words you have to unsuppress the

list and get each one of them rehabbed. Get what the proper

repair action is.



This is one of the vicious ones that can come your way. It

already happened a couple of times.



You say 'Use what has been overrun, list what has been

overrun and handle each reading item as it reads'. And the

auditor comes along and he runs a little list. It is a

list, being well trained it's a list and he doesn't even

mark the reads. And he's listed it. He didn't do anything

with it.



Now what I'm warning you of is liable to have packed up the

case at that exact instant. You're going to have trouble

with the case now. Wasn't rehabbed. Because every single

one of those is a restimulated by-passed charge. It was

listed wasn't handled. Now on, sooner or later some auditor

is going to make this list he's going to find an item, it

is going to blow down, it is going to go F/N and he's got

it made. And from that he's going to move over into the

thing that every process should be listed.



So I make it loud and clear to you that there are two types

of questions: one is simply a process and you write down

the answers and it does look like a list, but it's not a

list under the heading of listing and nulling. It's not a

legitimate question. And under that heading can come any

question that reads. An absolute infinity of questions You

can actually as a C/S dream them up if they read great. But

that's how you'd have to do it. Each one of them has to be

handled.



Because they are not legitimate questions. Not legitimate

lists. An infinity of it.



Now you sometimes do this very lightly to find information

from the case. Let's give you an example where.. where you

are trying actually, you are actually trying to find out

why this fellow has an invisible field. He somehow or

another by some mystery has wound up at about 5 or 6 OT and

he's got an invisible field. Well he can't see anything.

You've got a blind thetan or something. Now you can

actually undertake this as an as an action. It's merely an

exploratory action. You can ask the auditor to list what it

is. 'Regarding this invisible field what is it?' (laughter)

Now you hold a pistol at the auditor's head on this, you

say 'falls, small falls, long falls, BDs for god's sake

mark them down, boy, mark them down'. It's an illegitimate

list don't you see, but it's still alright. Ya, it's

handled like 'What has been overrun?' It isn't one thing

and it never will be one thing. It's always a composite.



Now you get into trouble this way by thinking in this

framework: the magic button. I've lived in the atmosphere

of this god damned non-existent magic button since 1950.

There is one thing wrong with the org. There is one thing

wrong with the case. Now what would you do as to all other

considerations, look for this one magic thing. In 1950 it

was the fellow who was supposed to be shot in the

gluttonous maximus by a biochemical thing which made him at

once clear and which we would by now be rehabbing like

crazy so we could get on with it.



(laughter) I don't know if anybody here remembers those

days but there was a great deal of discussion in those days

concerning the fact that there ought to be some chemical,

which one would load up into a syringe and the word One

Shot Clear became current, but it was actually a sarcastic

word. But people listened for this button and for quite a

while I researched on this basis, so actually I've given

time to this idea and I can absolutely assure you,

completely and 100% that there is no magic single button.



For instance the LRH Comm WW was looking through policy

letters the other day, he said 'something is wrong, something 

is wrong' and therefore it must be contained in policy. Well

alright, undoubtedly true within limit. And so therefore I'm

going to read all of these policy letters and applying it

out and all of a sudden he found out that it says that an

organization, which has undergone a period of

interiorization, heavy traffic internal, heavy traffic

internal will shortly after that go into a slump. Heavy

internal traffic is followed by a slump. Naturally it's

interiorized and isn't handling outside, so it goes into a

slump. You probably remember the policy letter. Anyway he

found this policy letter and he promptly started applying

it and got people to promote and just dropped the idea of

internal this and that and the other thing and he said

let's just have at it and let's do this exteriorization

action. And I'm sure they'll make it. 4 or 5 weeks from now

we'll have them coming up the line. But he should .. he was

looking for a magic button, a magic single button.



Well the reason he came down to looking for the magic

single button which would resolve the case at that

particular instance is because a great many buttons had

been very neglected for a very long time. Now at any given

. what..what deludes you in this is at any given instant

there is a magic button, see, at any given instant there is

a magic button, which when handled changes to another magic

button. (laugh) You do that in putting in the rudiments.

When you're putting in the rudiments the single magic

button on the case - ARC break. The single magic button NOW

is PTP. The single magic button would be missed withhold.

Do you get the idea? And actually going up the grades each

grade is the next magic button. They are magic buttons

alright, but they are not just one button. 



There is no button, there will never be a button. I can assure 

you there will never be a button, which pressed with great

expertise will suddenly blow a person to OT 8 from insane

asylum or wog. There is no such thing. And the reason there

isn't such a thing is because awareness is a gradient. It's

what he becomes aware of. Now maybe you can shorten this

gradient down to an hour, but it would still be not one

button. It would have to be a whole series of buttons in

this hour, ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. Do you get it?

And you'd have to know what button to push at any given

instant in that hour in order to clean that thing up. Do

you see? So the one button to hell with it. You can say,

well I know the button. Yes, yes, I know of a button. The

guy is just mocking up his bank and if you could get that

and work on that he could be convinced of that, why

naturally then the whole bank would blow and he would be a

Clear. Obvious. So there is one button.



Well, in the first place right above that there are a whole

lot of body thetans who also have the same consideration,

only unfortunately they have the consideration they are him

when they are not, and unfortunately above that at 7 he

will discover that there is another whole row of

aberration, as a matter of fact there are about 6 of them,

quite in addition to pictures. (laugh) So you see even that

doesn't turn out to be one button. He's Clear alright.

Great. Great. Se hasn't got any pictures. Fine. Now he goes

up to III and he gets rid of all his body thetans. So he

hasn't got any body thetans and so on. He can mock up

pictures and not mock up pictures.



He's in beautiful condition. IV is all straightened out.

Re's all rehabbed and so forth and he suddenly begins to

ask the question 'Why am I not 9 feet tall yet? I was 9

feet tall on Thursday and I as only 2 inches tall on

Friday.(laughter) Why is that?' Well, there are 6 or 7 more

things that are wrong with him, and they're contained in

the upper line of 7 and 8. I'm not trying to make a mystery

out of these things and say, oh well you find these things

when you get to 7 and 8. There are things like postulates

and there's things like interpersonal relationships,

there's things like the interrelationship with life itself,

there's on 8 there is 'who made this damned stuff?'

(laughter) Who made it and also who didn't want him to?

(laughter) Do you see there are things like this. Is

somebody standing around holding it there and mocking..

keeping it mocked up? (laughter) You can get a lot of

questions come up. The resolutions of these questions and

so on are all that's wrong with a thetan.



Now let's get back to where we started here. Do you have

some idea now that the listing and nulling laws apply to

legitimate listing questions? Now there possibly could be

more legitimate listing questions than the 7 or 8 which are

already there. I don't say that some of these would not

list to one item, but if they list to one item it's because

you're asking for the mostest or the bestest or the

biggestest. Do you get it? 'Who is the biggest watermelon?'

(laughter) 'What is the biggest planet you have ever been

on?' One item question obviously because you asked for it.

And that would determine it to that degree, but there are a

little row of them, which don't have the biggest and

mostest, they just come out to one item. And unless they

come out to one item, cut the PC throat, it'd be kinder.



Now the questions of VA oddly enough are so centrally

located with regard to the PCs mind and beingness. What

have you got? You've got persons, places and subjects. Wow!

And the funny part of it is that you could probably carry

them on and on, you could probably get some other reads,

you could probably do this and that and they are so

centralized in the field of aberration that they.. actually

you could count on the first BD being the item on the list

so that you can cut it short, but do you realize that that

doesn't disobey the laws of listing and nulling.



On a centralized question like that the first BD is it on

the list. Take it. The weird point about it is when you go

back to rehab VA, the minute you go back to rehab VA,

providing the auditor marked the BD, which BD'd. You know

he didn't do A, which BD'd really, but then wrote down B

and put the BD after B. he could make some goofy error like

this. But you go back and repair these VA and it's very

very peculiar, you'll find out it's the first blowing down

item.



Now you say, well that therefore must be a law of all

listing. It doesn't have to be a list of S&Ds, it doesn't

have to apply to S&Ds, so it's still the one reading item

on the list. So please differentiate, that in VA you are

just being given a fast route which still follows the laws

of listing. It isn't a special case. It just happens that

VA follows the rules of listing, all the rules of listing

occur on the first BD. Bong! That's all. It's peculiar. And

you'll find on some S&Ds that it's not true. So what I've

given you you'll see in VA, it's this peculiarity, it's the

first BD.



Now you can look on a VA list and you can see that he took

the second BD, and it inevitably will be a wrong item. So

it's not correct, it's the second BD. You look on an S&D

list and you'll find the third BD reading is the correct

item. Insufficiently central to the intelligence of the

being, you see. (unclear) ..you've listed here over on the

fringes and he blew some charge here and he blew some

charge there and he blew.. if you say, persons,

places... what the hell man, you're going right up against

the substance of 7 and 8. Bongo! Bongo! Dead on! And the

person says 'oh yeah' because he's sitting right there.

It's just a peculiarity, so that is simply given to you in

an effort to let you get it done in a hurry. And no other

significance than that, so don't lean on it all over the

place and run up a big ridge.



Now where an individual is rehabbed on VA you always

carefully do the whole job, you null the whole list to see

if it has to be extended in any way...  Why? The PC thought

of something else when he was listing. He didn't have the

listing question. This. That. There is a goofy outness

here, see. The PC was still thinking about something, all

of a sudden something else distracted his attention and he

thought oh well, what the hell, I mean we've got to get

this session through with here.. I've got to meet my wife,

or something you know. Attention came off the session, he

got a BD, something goofy like this. There is no way you

can prevent this except by being an auditor. What the hell

are you doing auditing so up to? Well, what were you doing

auditing a PC who had to meet his wife? I've never audited

a PC who had to go out and meet his wife at 4 o'clock. Oh

no not me! Now I want to put in a Reality-factor here...  we

gonna run waffle, waffle, waffle, waffle. I'm going to run

a resistive case list on you...  That's a hell of a gag. Boy

that's real scum. Didn't this auditor ever hear about the

fact that he had to be in ARC with the PC?



One of the reasons the fellow runs the resistive case list,

he can run a resistive case list on somebody who is just

momentarily hung up and find out what it is, he still falls

in these categories. The guy was sick on Thursday, must do

an assessment on the thing. It says he is physically ill.

That's it. So, the net result, the net result, when a guy

gets the R-factor he's liable to tell you something like, ja 

ja ja ja ja ja...  you know, funny attitude, this guy must be 

in a hell of a rush... .ask the guy you were rushed on anything? 

Oh yes yes I have to meet my wife at 4 o'clock. Good. Before 

we start this session actually I want you to get out on the

telephone and call her. Oh I'm sorry you can't, she's

driving around in the car now. Good.



Alright, I'll tell you what, at the risk of upsetting you,

and so forth...  ah.. we're going to have this session this

evening. Be back here this evening. Why, why, it's

perfectly alright with me, I can suppress this while you're

auditing. (laughter)



This is all part of making the PC fly, you see. You

actually could have spent time, have you had food, have you

had sleep, do you have to go any place, and so forth,

except this is so god damned pianola and play it by

dropping the penny in the machine and so forth that it is a

damned bore, as they are currently saying and they'll be

saying something else in the future sometime, it is a drag.

(laughter) It's a waste of time. Ah.. therefore, therefore

you immediately assume that your PC is in one of two

conditions to be audited, which is he set up to be audited

or he ain't. (laughter) And of the he ain't there are two

categories, the ones the auditor can repair and the ones he

can't. Well, I'm very sorry I'm in an awful rush. I have an

appointment with a physician to have my leg sawed off at 4

o'clock. (laughter) Actually there is something an auditor

can do about that - you can say go and call him up and

cancel it, huh. Why should I do that? Well, one of the

reasons is I'm auditing you. Mixed practices. (laughter) So

therefore a process can be written down and look like a

list and there is a thing called list, which you then list.



Now as we look into this with more intimacy we find that

the definition of a complete list is a list which hag only

one reading item on the list. Oh yes, you know all about

that. Of course the other items that just tick, no they

wouldn't do, many exceptions to this rule. Ah.. the .. ah

the list which we null with out ruds has long falls on

various items. There aren't any exceptions to it none!

None! None! That is a list and this is brought forward for

this remarkable reason: That the auditors in 1962, in 63,

used to come around and ask me all the time how many items

should be on the list. How many items should be on the

list. Should list be four items? What is a full list?

Should it be two items? Three items? Four items? Twenty

items? You have to give it some sort of a figure. You're

asking me some balderdash question like how long is a rope?

And it's as long as there is a complete item on it.



Now I have seen some pretty damned long lists. I have seen

a list go two or three pages before the item fell out of

the hamper. That sounds incredible and it is almost un..

incredible. It happens damned rarely, but it does happen.

So you see some auditor he says, well let's see I've gotten

down to the bottom of the first page and somebody is liable

to be very upset indeed if I go on listing page after page.

I've been shot for it in the past and I don't have any item

yet so it must be a dead horse. Listen, did the question

read? The list won't dead-horse. No listing question which

read will ever dead-horse, because the only reason a dead

horse dead-horses is the listing question did not read.

(laughter) If the question read you get an item. And I've

actually seen very recently a folder in which there was a

reading listing question and then after listing half a page

the auditor decided it must be a dead horse because all the

items up to that point did not now read, two or three of

them had read.



So what was he doing? He was auditing one of these wide

things. Do you know that the PCs attention, goes way out

and comes way in and goes way out and comes way in cyclically.



There's certain test research processes you can run and he

starts talking about this, see. he'll say the table, the

chair, the clock there, the bureau, the glass of water, the

room, a wall, that duck over there, America, that star, the

sea in the Galaxy, yes yes yes the Galaxy, the star that

other star of the planet, of the moon, that range of Hills,

the the tongue there, the floor.



You can watch his answers, they go out and they go in; he's

buttered around the place. Do you follow? And if he is

really dead in and he wasn't really right to recognize

there was anything like this and the list is being listed

just a little bit soon on his case should we say .. ah, it

read, it's going to be a long list. And you read it and you

null it and if the question read then one of two things is

true; the items are suppressed, which is easy to do because

you null it with suppress, or the list is incomplete. And I

actually have four little questions that you can ask and

you have them on a bulletin write-up. It' most usually the

first item on the list on a long list that's always the figure.



The candidate that has been by-passed is the first item.

That most frequent. The second item comes in a little bit

behind the first item. And the list is incomplete or the

list is suppressed.



There's certain various positive things that are wrong with

lists You can take these laws of listing and make a list of

the laws of listing for assessment and go down the case

with each one and you would eventually find every damned

reason. One assumes that standard is in before he does the

laws of listing, so you would have to put on that something

like 'Was it listed with out Ruds?' To make it a complete

assessment form I would just check on that. To make an

assessment form on this you would have to put 'Was it

listed over out Ruds?' and for the uninitiated you would

have to list the Ruds that could have been out while the

listing was going on or which were now out and then you

would have a total which was more or less known anyhow.



But these laws of listing could be added up. Do you see how

you could do that? You can take any of the materials of

standard tech and list them out and ask questions of it and

work them this way and work them that way, because what you

are doing. It's the difference between a mechanic using a

screw driver and a pair of pliers. You know, he uses a

screw driver and he uses a pair of pliers. Well he sure can

use them in numerous ways. Got the laws of listing, there

are probably a dozen ways you could use these lists. All

right, complete list, there's all there is about a complete

list, because that's what it is. But remember by the word

list here we mean from an authentic reading listing question.



Two, the TA rising means the list is being overlisted. It's

too long inevitable and invariable a rising TA inevitably

means that something has been done too long and so on.

Sometimes with a suppressive and so on you will see a TA

rise. You'll see a suppressive - TA rise. And you say aha,

that's a variation from the laws of listing, because, look

at that, it's been a stuck high TA and it has come down

like mad when we all of a sudden got this suppressive. Oh

oh oh oh, I'm not trying to make myself right. It was

simply an overrun. He was an overrun. Se was around far too

long. (laughter) One of the reactions of suppressing are

incomplete cycles of action and overrun on cycle of action.



To handle the handled is also very suppressive. You got a

floor all clean, somebody comes along, tells you to clean

up the floor. A Suppressive cleans cleans. It's one of the

characteristics.



It doesn't make somebody who cleans a clean a suppressive,

but he invariably does this. He's got.. the house is all

painted, it's all finished, just getting ready to put away

the paint brushes, the suppressive comes along and says

look at that, you'd better get to work on that, hasn't been

painted well enough, go on and paint the house. He'll also

come along with only one wall half painted and say you will

have to rake the garden now. But different suppressives

they are in the overrun or in the incomplete.



So you've found a suppressive is overrunning something.

Also you will find that the subject of this suppression is

an overrun. It is not a violation of this, but once in a

while you'll find an S&D is the reason of a high TA, once

in a while. And then you sit very mysterious, but of course

it's quite obvious that the person needs an S&D, he's sick,

PTS and so forth. You just happen to give him an S&D and

you happen to see the TA go down, you wouldn't necessarily

always order an S&D because some body's TA was high, do you

follow? It doesn't work.



Now, a TA rising while you're doing a list it means it's

overlisted. And boy you can catch that right now, right

now, right now, right now. It was the second item it starts

to rise on the third item. You can catch it right now, just

like that. Pow! Pow! Because you see a rising TA is first

signaled by a needle going from right to left, instead of

left to right. Now it's true that there is a little bump

that a person can go across, a little bump he can go across

and you said jinx and you had a surge and then you said

brown and it sort of rises a little bit. You know the

needle return to position, and then it says balderdash and

goes bbblumsp. you got it. So it isn't the first tiny

little bit of motion of the needle. And when that thing is

going up the PC starts to think. There are other things

that go along with it, he starts to comm lag the needle

starts going over to the left and you've already ...  you 

have a forecast of the fact that you are just about to overlist.



This is forecasted.



Now if you did this, if you did this, if you nulled the

first three items and it was starting to apparently rise on

the fourth and it did the first three items and then having

done the first three items it looked like it was rising,

you went back and nulled the first three items, you got in

suppress on the first item and on the second item, and you

still didn't have an item you go on listing. Do you

understand? And if the TA now really started up like a

surge you would go back and examine that first item again.

Do you see? He's done something. We had an example, we had

a person of another nationality and he was given an S&D and

he put the item on the list, which by the way some sessions

later came up, but he put the item on the list and then he

thought oh my god that's not socially acceptable and he

(bang). And boy, nobody could persuade him to let that item

read again.



In America such an item would be mother, do you see? You

wouldn't dare put, a lot a lot of areas wouldn't dare put

the word mother on the list. In Italy it would be priest.

You know, father Giuseppee (laughter). Has anything been

unmocked? Yes. Who or what has tried to unmock you? See?

You're asking, anything tried to unmock you? Right away

this is what communicates you know. he's asking himself has

anything been unmocked, anything uncocked, father Giuseppe,

aha, oh no. (laughter) Can't give it to him. Now you do

give it to him. He is now all in the middle of guilt. He'll

give the manifestation of you having found the wrong item

but only visually, the way to really get him in trouble is

to continue with, a little bit further, and really give him

a wrong item, you let him struggle with that one, very

often you give the PC a wrong item, he struggles with it.

But you can give him a right item which he struggles with.

It's whether or not it obeys the rules of listing. It obeys

the rules of listing, that's his item. Father Guiseppi

that's it, pooh. Oh no oh no oh no, yes, yes I guess that's 

it. (laughter) he'll come right straight through it, you see. 

Alright!



Number three: a list can be underlisted in which case

nothing can be found on nulling. The question read, the

question read, you listed a list, nothing is suppressed,

two or three items read as you listed it - incomplete list.

Nothing read, so extend it. You put a little bar over here

and mark extended. Don't ever you or let your auditors get

into a position or habit of extending a list without

marking a bar over to the left of the list saying ext. And

if you ever extend a later list, later extend an early list

is what I mean why say ext with the current date so

somebody knows it's been repaired.



Now, if after a session the TA is still high or goes up a

wrong item has been found. And that can happen between the

session and (the environ) and the examiner. He left the

session having done a Remedy B. He left the session and his

TA was at 2 and he arrives at the examiner with his TA at

4.75, to give you an extreme example. You don't have to ask

any questions about it whatsoever, you just say wrong item,

back to session. Or you say examine the list. Now remember

that it was always wisest when you have a direct evidence

of an incorrect list to get the list corrected before you

bingle-bungle around with Ruds, because it is the out rud.

So, this can happen a couple of days later, only it doesn't

show up as a high TA, it shows up as his face went solid.

Yeah, I have some pressure on my face, or something of this

character. (unclear) I was all right after the session. I was 

sure it was...  And your correct action is then go back and 

have the list corrected. It's a wrong item, wrong item, wrong 

item. Another evidence, particularly on VA, he got in ethics

trouble within a very short time afterwards, 48 hours

something like that he finds himself in ethics. Ah the.. he

finds himself in the hands of the medical officer.



Now, you might run into some firefight like I ran into one

time, whereby the galley was busy feeding badly in an

unsanitary area and a whole bunch of crew members came down

epidemically at the same time I was getting some auditing

accomplished with those guys and (laughter) and now we had

to disentangle what this was all about. Were they being

super suppressed? All of a sudden had a mad team walked in

on the scene? What had happened? What had happened? Well

all that had happened was somebody had fed them rotten meat

(laugh), but it sure made one wonder.



Now the funny part of it is the guy who had fed them the

rotten meat had had three wrong items on power just 48

hours before he knowingly fed them rotten meat. (laughter)

Now you say I was looking all over the place to find the

wrong items - well I found the wrong items, I found the

guy.(laughter) That's how far it can go.



Now if the PC says it is a wrong item, it is a wrong item.

Now the trouble with that is, is this father Guiseppi thing

that I just said. - So the PC is saying ah I don't think

that is my item, I don't think that is my item, I don't

think that is my item. All the rules of listing say it is

his item. What are you going to do? Interesting question -

what are you going to do? Alright, we leave it at that.

(laughter) I'm not going to solve all your problems

(laughter). But this is true. If he says it is a wrong item

it is a wrong item. In the first place he is going to go

around worrying about the catholic church to such a degree

that he's going to spin in if you give him father Giuseppi.

I will solve it for you, there is nothing to it

actually. Ah, you ask him, just discuss this item with me,

I 'm not trying to force it on you, you don't have to have

this item, no you just don't have to have this item,

anything been suppressed and so forth on it, invalidated

and so forth. Oh I sure invalidated it, oh wow. (laughter)



Now where do you put those auditing reports normally?

(laughter) he's landed up with a problem hasn't he? Well,

if you force the item on him against that sort of thing and

so forth, as far as he is concerned it's wrong item, he'll

come around to it being a right item, if you just

acknowledge it. You say, it says here that father Giuseppe

is your item. No no it couldn't possibly be. All right

thank you very much. Now do you say, it is too your item?

(laughter) On six, the question must be checked and must

read as a question before it is listed. An item listed from

an unreading question would give you a deadhorse. And

that's all, you always listed, but let me tell you

something, it could be a false read or a suppressed read.

Now a person who is being suppressed suppresses the

suppressed. Do you see, he is suppressing suppressed

because he is dramatizing being suppressed. And suppressed

reads when you say lightly with a gay heart, ah .. is it

withdrawn from, is it stop or is it unmocked? Most of the

time you'll get away with it. But the reason this guy is

PTS, he is upset, he is sick, ah he is this, he is that.



There is every reason in the world, but boy this guy is PTS

and remember that the whole subject can be this. WSU will

normally shine outside of the question and you normally can

get your read on a it. And it says "U" (unmock) . So you

say who or what, and you can check it, is trying to unmock

you. Some guys who are a bit blue only react to 'who is trying

to unmock you.'



It's a current situation. Who or what has tried to unmock

you if it.. attempted to unmock you - that sense of the

question does not reach them, so you have to test the

question, get a suppress in on it and you suddenly see it

reading. Make sure it isn't a false read. In other words

you handle this. It's got to be a handlable thing, but if

even after you handle it still doesn't read and then you

knuckelheadedly go list it. Boy you want to have your own

head examined, because it'll give you a dead-horse every

tome. A dead-horse proceeds from a non-reading question and

that is the reason for a dead horse and an auditor who does

not check the listing question before he lists it is a

knuckle-head.



Now, if the item is on the list and nothing read on nulling

the item is suppressed or invalidated.



Yes, so true, so true. Now one that cures that comes in

number eight. On a suppressed list it must be nulled with

suppressed. On balderdash has anything been suppressed? And

then you don't say the item, because of course the read on

suppression transfers to suppress, so if the item is going

to read it'll read on suppress anyhow, and now you've

cleaned up suppress so you know the thing is going to read.

Now an invalidated item reads on invalidate. A suppressed

item reads on suppressed. And the odd part of it is that it

reads the exact amount on suppress or invalidated that it

reads itself. On the item the reads transfers. As to the

exact right item it's going to read on the list. On ragbags

has anything been suppressed - boom. You should try it out

a few times just to see what the hell happened. And all of

a sudden you're totally relaxed, you say ragbags, it'll

read the same read exactly that you just got on suppressed.

Exactly. Same length. Same everything. It's one of the

miraculous little things.



It's the wildest thing I ever saw in my life, when I saw

it. The exact read with the same hitch, the same level, the

same (unclear) it's exact. And you can transfer it off to

suppress, transfer... suppress it and now suppress will read, 

you can clean it up, suppress it again, read it under the 

suppress once more, the suppress now reads, you clean it up, 

bring it back, make the item read again - it's the wildest 

thing you ever saw in your life. So it is one of the methods 

of identifying the item. Is it the item that was suppressed?

Does it read like the suppressed read? So then you'd say on

balderdash has anything been suppressed? Well you know it's

going to be it so you do it, but to hell with it.



Supposing you wanted to check this thing out you say

balderdash. Did it read the same as suppressed? One of the

ways of checking it. Very cute, it's identical, identical

read. Now, on an item that is suppressed or invalidated the

read will transfer exactly from the item to the button and

when the button is gotten in the item will again read. Just

as I told you. Every once in a while you see some auditor

say on balderdash has anything been suppressed. All right,

thank you very much that's your item. When you are nulling

you just say on balderdash has anything been suppressed

read. When you've got the item, say the item and then the

su.. its read will come off. Otherwise its read will stay

on it. You've got to say the item again. On balderdash has

anything been suppressed, on ragbags has anything been

suppressed, on .. bong. Balderdash is the only reading item 

on the list. You say, good balderdash, there is your read. 

All right, you say, your item is balderdash.



Now an item from an overlisted list is often suppressed.

The damnedest thing you ever saw in your life. If you see

an 89 page list some knucklehead has done in Kyokak, for

Christ's sake know that the item is probably the first or

second item on the list. (laughter) On occasion when you pass

the item in nulling all subsequent items will read to a

point where everything on the list will then read. In this

case take the first read, take the first which read on the

first nulling.



So, so this idea of slant, slant, slant, slant or X, X, X,

X, come off of it. Don't do that! Don't do that! It's SF;

F. LFBD. Say what the read was! So as you're coming down

you read the first item on the list (unclear), ah

balderdash, topsat, oh wait a minute! What the hell is

this? Catterwamps, that was a LF, balderdash a SF,

chipmunks F. catnip F. [unclear] F. What the hell is going

on here? Well what's going on here is you're carrying the

read of the first item right on down in the list. If you

keep doing this you're going to be in a hell of a mess In

fact I don't know of a good method of separating out this

awful mess.



Now, an underlisted and overlisted list will ARC break the

PC, and he may refuse to be audited until the list is

corrected and may become furious with the auditor and will

remain so until it is corrected. He'll also become sad,

he'll also get other manifestations of ARC break.

Overlisted and underlisted, an incorrect list is something

is the first thing you correct for straightening up the

case. Listing and nulling or any auditing at all beyond an

ARC break without handling the ARC break, such as

correcting the list or otherwise locating it will put the

PC into a sad effect.



And that is so true. Just what it says because it is the

same as an ARC break. A long-duration ARC break that is

audited over top of, will bring about a sad effect.



Fourteen, a PC whose attention is on something else won't

list easily. You list and null only with the rudiments in

on the PC. That's where you would put it, doing a list you

would have to expand that question as I was inferring. You

would have to say, you know while you were being listed,

you know, did you have a PTS, a MWH. Ah.. an auditor whose

TRs are out has difficulty in listing and nulling and in

finding items. Oh so true. Now if you wanted to send every

item to the examiner to be checked to make sure it was the

right item, it would simply be stating this: every auditor,

I have, has out-TRs. We are not sure that the person went

release on the process he was run on. The analogous

statement is: none of our auditors have their TRs in.



When TRs are out things go release and do various weird

cooky things, that they shouldn't, but when we say TRs are

out, God! it's got to be awfully damned bad. It's something

that you would break down and cry over.



The auditor is sitting there eating candy and the PC is

looking out the window, more or less self auditing, and the

auditor is reading a newspaper between questions. It'd

really be corny, see, for this to happen. Listing and

nulling errors in presence of auditor's code violations can

unstabilize a PC, believe me. You take a PC who is not been

fed or something like this or has not had enough sleep etc.

and you insist on listing and you carry the list over, and

it's already difficult to audit and you shouldn't be listing 

at that time anyhow, can unstabilize a guy. He he can feel 

like he is absolutely spinning, for a day, two days, three 

days, four days, woof! Now the lack of a specific listing 

question or an incorrect nonstandard listing question which 

doesn't really call for an item would give you more than one 

item reading on a list. Sometimes you see a list which has lots

of items reading on it, for Christ's sake go back and look

at the listing question. And it could say. "Are tractors

necessary?" (laughter) Don't get so obsessed that you think

only one thing will read on that list - everything under

God's green earth will read on it.



You cease listing and nulling actions when a floating

needle appears, and this is perfectly true.



You cease listing and nulling actions when a floating

needle appears. You don't cease auditing.



Do you get the nuance of that? (laughter) It means what it says.



Now, always give the PC hit item and circle it plainly on

the list. Wait wait wait a minute! That's auditing past

listing and.. Boy, you'd better. his F/N will pack right

up, PC go around what was my item what was my item, what

was my item. See the bank freezes before the PC speaks, so

it probably went F/N before he gave you the item. You see,

he thought ragbags, F/N, and then he says ragbags and you

write it down. See, there it is. Sometimes when you are

nulling (snaps fingers) you get your F/N.



Now if you just sit there blankly the PC is going to go

into mystery. So you always give the PC his item. And

twenty, listing and nulling are highly precise auditing

actions and if not done exactly by the laws may bring about

a down tone and slow gain case, but if done correctly

exactly by the laws and with good auditing in general will

produce the highest gains attainable.



Note, there are no variations or exceptions to the above.

It does not alter VA power procedure.



People think sometimes this alters it or they're different.

I'm just.. I already told you why. And ethics should be put

in where these laws are violated. An auditor who isn't

convinced of something, you should list him on some

question, insists it goes to one item, particularly if the

question doesn't read. What tractors are sick? (laughter)

Went into 89 pages and insist there is an item. That's too

gruesome. I know you can't confront it. I wouldn't be able

to confront it either. I'm sure you'll all do these laws

correctly and I'm sure use a blackjack on those.



People regard these laws of listing and nulling far too

lightly, far far far too lightly. They are very important,

and with the auditor's code are the most important errors

that can be made as far as case effects are concerned, so

they are not to be regarded lightly. You don't list a list

and then don't null it, you don't muck about with listing

and nulling. You don't let an auditor list and null for you

as case supervisor that you are very doubtful of. You got

it? You make him itsa or something. 



Got it? (yes) 



Help you out a little bit? (yes) 



All right. Thank you very much.



(applause)



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